Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

Isn't it sexism to say that linux distros are for men and wedding gowns for women?


It would be, but that isn't what is being said here. It is being said that this specific, narrow, limited group of men is using the structures they created to keep articles that focus on their interests, Linux distributions, while excluding things that interest other people and not them, like bridal gowns. Because of the demographics of that population, the interests happen to fall along gendered lines.

Almost no one is interested in Linux distributions, but having articles on them doesn't somehow discourage any women from contributing and may encourage those who are into Linux. However, it does when topics that are socially coded as feminine, such as wedding dresses, are deleted because of their topic it does send a message about what is valued by the community.

Those social codings are also a problem, but a different problem than the one being discussed here. The best way to fix that underlying issue in this particular case would be for more men learn about the history of fashion and get interested in the construction of garments, rather than seeing clothes as trivial or beneath notice. In the absence of that change, the next best thing would be for these particular men to be aware of their bias and let other people talk about the importance of clothing even if they don't agree.


Yes. Isn't it silly to ask a stupid question for the sake of making a rhetorical point?


Yes and no. To be honest the article strikes me as a fluff piece attempting to meaning into something what is really a pair of fairly trivial problems - those being deletionism and and the fact that the majority of editors are American males[0].

> ...the site remains a boys’ club.

This is a somewhat unfair characterisation since the gender of an editor is usually unknown to other editors or irrelevant to the topic at hand.

> "We have over 100 articles on different Linux distributions, some of them quite obscure … and [they have] virtually no impact on the broader culture, but we think that’s perfectly fine." [Jimbo Wales]

Claiming that Wikipedia editors are "perfectly fine" with having hundreds of articles on non-notable topics like minor Linux distributions is a bit of a stretch. Sub-par articles on minor technical things like programming languages and F/OSS projects are constantly being flagged for deletion or merging[1] and to be honest I'm not particularly surprised that what was, on 29 April 2011[2] a stub on a wedding dress was nominated for merging. Of course, the article has since grown into a useful and well referenced piece, but I don't think its fair to claim this incident represents Wikipedia's "woman problem" unless one is also willing to discuss Wikipedia's "Lisp problem"[1] or Wikipedia's "Linux problem"[3].

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Pseudomonas/IP_editors_by... [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arc_(programming_language... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wedding_dress_of_... [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:SliTaz


"to be honest I'm not particularly surprised that what was, on 29 April 2011[2] a stub on a wedding dress was nominated for merging."

The article was flagged only 16 minutes after it was created, so it didn't have time to evolve.


Of course it's a fluff piece; I'm not sure I've ever read an article about Wikipedia that wasn't. Journalistic depth is rarely something anyone bothers with when discussing Wikipedia, nevermind scientific depth that actually usefully tracks things like the other problems you mention.


> Isn't it silly to ask a stupid question for the sake of making a rhetorical point?

silly, stupid, rhetorical. Three insults in one reply - I am impressed.

/s

How is your reply any more relevant than his comment?


> How is your reply any more relevant than his comment?

Gadzooks, you're right! His comment wasn't just silly; it was irrelevant, too! I missed that. Thanks for catching it!


I am interested in what others think, so no, it was not stupid to ask a question.

clarification: Yes, honestly. I don't get most of the sexism debates.


> I don't get most of the sexism debates.

I could tell. If you'd like to explain where you're coming from, that might invite a less snarky reply since you'd become a human being with a unique background and the potential for critical thought. Perhaps someone will even help explain to you what you "don't get". You might even have the chance to find out what others think.

As it is, the only thought I have is that you asked a stupid and inflammatory question. I shared that thought with you. Are you actually interested? Because walking into a bar fight and punching someone in the nose is not the right way to find out how it started.


I liked that point. Didn't really think about how much the article handled stuff as "girls things" and "boys things" until this comment.


Yes. There's a gender imbalance in tech but it's not as bad as 97%/3%. I thought it was a pretty unfair stereotype, if only because people reading the article will continue to think that Linux is very exclusionary toward women.


At the very least its heavily reliant on reinforcing cultural stereotypes that likely have no bearing on actual gender differences.


Phrased that way, it could be.

But if of Linux distros users 95% are men and 5% are women is it sexist to say that linux distros are _mostly of interest_ to men?

Now, those numbers are mostly a guesstimation, but it seems to coincide with the Wikipedia numbers, and also with what I see in all Linux forums, conferences and user groups I've seen. Anybody is free to correct those.

I believe in those statements:

1) Linux could be used as well by a man or a woman interested in it. 2) Linux is _not_ used equally (in aggregate) by men or women. 3) Due to cultural reasons not as much women compared to men are interested in Linux (or IT in general). 4) The reason for that is not just that it is a "boys club". Traditional office jobs (i.e non secretarial) used to be a "boys club" too at some point, but that haven't stopped women getting into them since the sixties or so. Are biology male geeks less sexist? Because women seem to flood into biology majors and not so in IT majors.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: